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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 17, 2010 7:23:17 GMT -5
I quit trying to believe. Truth should be self evident. It shouldn't be a stretch. Once I started looking for the most likely scenario when considering these things, I started to view all religion the way most everyone else views any religion but their own, as myth. At one time the gods of Olympus were very real to many people. Now we dismiss them as story telling from ancient civilizations. So too will be the stories of the bible, koran, and the torah. |
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 17, 2010 7:25:37 GMT -5
Moderate, is it that your frustration stems from not being able to convince others to give up believing in something that offers them hope, as perhaps it seems you have? I have an enormous amount of hope. Hope that we can one day lay down our superstitions and come together as a species and work together to make this planet an even more wonderful place for future generations to live. |
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 17, 2010 8:03:28 GMT -5
Moderate? Believers who have questions about spiritual matters should pray for understanding and search out the Word for their answer. Humans making up their own mind about spiritual matters could account for all the many "man-made denominations" in the world today, which also account for the majority of the wars fought on this planet. Trying to understand the spiritual realm with our physical thought processes is difficult to say the least. Here an example of where we will continue to have difficulties. I do not believe that spirits exist. I also believe that when people attempt to solve real problems by turning to magic, they are 1)deluding themselves and 2)wasting their time. Aparently not. I have merely been stating my opinion about religion and it has been taken as an afront to all who believe. I can understand why also. Religion becomes ones identity. It cannot be separated from the person practicing it. Insult to one becomes insult to the other. Aparently not. I seek merely to inject what I beleive to be sober, logical, reflection of the world I live in, and the concerns I have for the influence of religion therein. Because it affects our lives. People who do believe are making decisions based on what I believe to be mumbo jumbo, that affect me. What if your congressman or woman practiced voodoo? how would that make you feel? That's how all religions make me feel. I aprciate that. I also, am not here to degrate anyone. I am sorry that my position on religion makes you or anyone else feel that way. A little story from this weekend. Saturday, I spent the day fishing with a friend. we borrowed his fathers boat and truck to carry it so I left my car at their house the whole day. At the end of the day when we were returning everthing, we stopped to thank his Mom and Dad for the use of the boat and truck. When we went to get in the car to leave his Mom called him back into the house. She told him that she did not approve of my Darwin fish emblem on my car, and didn't approve of me. Instantly I had become the enemy. By simply publicaly expressing my support for evolution, I was an enemy of god. Nice! |
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Post by Cyberman on Nov 17, 2010 15:00:16 GMT -5
Like I said there is a difference between "discussing" and "attacking" any topic. I assume you can't discuss religion without "insulting it" and by doing so you are admittedly and intentionally insulting believers.
Then quit wasting your time on silly internet forums and run for office.
and ummm....good luck on that.
What other public expression stickers do you have on your car?
One of those "piss on the cross" stickers?
any rainbow colored stickers?
Come on, tell it all!
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 17, 2010 16:22:27 GMT -5
Like I said there is a difference between "discussing" and "attacking" any topic. I assume you can't discuss religion without "insulting it" and by doing so you are admittedly and intentionally insulting believers. Then quit wasting your time on silly Internet forums and run for office. and ummm....good luck on that. What other public expression stickers do you have on your car? One of those "piss on the cross" stickers? any rainbow colored stickers? Come on, tell it all! Very mature Cyber. The answer is no. I only have the one emblem. Just thought it was time people started seeing something other than fish. You know, there are other points of view, too. Let me tell you who I am. I am a pro gun, anti welfare, atheist, who believes in capital punishment and doesn't believe in the war on drugs. I am a straight white male who suports gay rights, racial equality, gender equality, and population control. I support the troops, but I'm against the war in Iraq. I think the war in Afganistan should have been our main focus. I voted for Obama, but think he has let us down in some areas.This past election I voted for Republicans, Democrats, and Libertarians. I even voted for a pastor of a church for my State Representative. You may think you have me all figured out, but you are dead wrong. You're right about running for office. There's little chance of that. It's even written into law in some states that atheists cannot hold office. I wonder if any states have laws against Christians running for office. I doubt it. You are wrong about me insulting people intentionally. People incorrectly take offense to me supporting the idea that there is no god and that I shouldn't have to be governed those who believe in one. I support everyone's right to believe as they wish. As long as it doesn't affect anyone else and their rights. That's pretty simple in my view. |
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Nov 18, 2010 1:01:19 GMT -5
moderateamerican,
I agree that you have the right to state your opinions.
But to do so over & over & over is just plain ridiculous.
You posted your opinions NUMEROUS times.
It's time to stop flooding these forums with the same old same old.
Enough already!
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Post by Cyberman on Nov 18, 2010 1:15:35 GMT -5
Like I said there is a difference between "discussing" and "attacking" any topic. I assume you can't discuss religion without "insulting it" and by doing so you are admittedly and intentionally insulting believers. Then quit wasting your time on silly Internet forums and run for office. and ummm....good luck on that. What other public expression stickers do you have on your car? One of those "piss on the cross" stickers? any rainbow colored stickers? Come on, tell it all! Very mature Cyber. The answer is no. I only have the one emblem. Just thought it was time people started seeing something other than fish. You know, there are other points of view, too. Let me tell you who I am. I am a pro gun, anti welfare, atheist, who believes in capital punishment and doesn't believe in the war on drugs. I am a straight white male who suports gay rights, racial equality, gender equality, and population control. I support the troops, but I'm against the war in Iraq. I think the war in Afganistan should have been our main focus. I voted for Obama, but think he has let us down in some areas.This past election I voted for Republicans, Democrats, and Libertarians. I even voted for a pastor of a church for my State Representative. You may think you have me all figured out, but you are dead wrong. You're right about running for office. There's little chance of that. It's even written into law in some states that atheists cannot hold office. I wonder if any states have laws against Christians running for office. I doubt it. You are wrong about me insulting people intentionally. People incorrectly take offense to me supporting the idea that there is no god and that I shouldn't have to be governed those who believe in one. I support everyone's right to believe as they wish. As long as it doesn't affect anyone else and their rights. That's pretty simple in my view. Excellent post. We almost sound like clones, except I believe in God and you don't. I agree with you on most all your other opinions. By "population control" I assume you mean abortion as a means of birth control, something I disagree with. I think population control should be by pro-active birth control means. I think abortion should be legal under specific circumstances, but not as a reactive birth control method. I see a double standard here.... It's not murder, because it's not been born yet. Yet... If I hit a pregnant woman with my car and kill her and her unborn child I would face two charges of vehicular homicide. Come on, is it a life, or not? Like you said, I might be wrong, but I think you and I are a lot alike. If... People incorrectly take offense to you for supporting the idea that there is no god and that you shouldn't have to be governed those who believe in one. and... Me supporting the idea that God is and that I shouldn't have to be governed those who don't believe in God. What is the solution to such an issue that will not violate your rights nor mine? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 1:32:01 GMT -5
I quit trying to believe. Truth should be self evident. It shouldn't be a stretch. Once I started looking for the most likely scenario when considering these things, I started to view all religion the way most everyone else views any religion but their own, as myth. At one time the gods of Olympus were very real to many people. Now we dismiss them as story telling from ancient civilizations. So too will be the stories of the bible, koran, and the torah. You quit trying to believe? So are you saying that you've never truly believed in God? Ahhh the gods of Olympus...I've always considered those fellas to be the Nephilim that are mentioned in the Bible a couple of times. |
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 18, 2010 9:39:06 GMT -5
Excellent post. We almost sound like clones, except I believe in God and you don't. I agree with you on most all your other opinions. By "population control" I assume you mean abortion as a means of birth control, something I disagree with. I think population control should be by pro-active birth control means. I think abortion should be legal under specific circumstances, but not as a reactive birth control method. I see a double standard here.... It's not murder, because it's not been born yet. Yet... If I hit a pregnant woman with my car and kill her and her unborn child I would face two charges of vehicular homicide. Come on, is it a life, or not? Like you said, I might be wrong, but I think you and I are a lot alike. If... People incorrectly take offense to you for supporting the idea that there is no god and that you shouldn't have to be governed those who believe in one. and... Me supporting the idea that God is and that I shouldn't have to be governed those who don't believe in God. What is the solution to such an issue that will not violate your rights nor mine? We agree on many things it seems. I too, believe that abortion should used only under certain circumstances. By population control, I mean pregnancy prevention. The answer is that we should each endeavor to not infringe upon each others rights. Government of a people so diverse as the people of the United States of America has to be done in such a way as to protect the rights of all without excluding any. It does not have to include the ideas of each group therein. That's part of the reason why I believe in a small central government. Legislators in Vermont are not necessarily in touch with South Georgia citizens and vice versa. |
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 18, 2010 13:08:29 GMT -5
You quit trying to believe? So are you saying that you've never truly believed in God? Ahhh the gods of Olympus...I've always considered those fellas to be the Nephilim that are mentioned in the Bible a couple of times. That's right, I never could make sense of it. I'm sure at some point in my youth when I took every word from a grownup as literal truth, I believed. But along the way I started questioning it all. Little things at first then the big ones. As things started to make less and less sense to me, I chose to look to the simplest answer. I learned later that that rationality had a name. Occam's Razor. Simply put, all things being equal, the simplest hypothesis is more likely to be the correct one. The hypothesis that makes the least assumptions is generally the simplest one. Nephilim, that's a good one. I wonder if that's how the early Christians at the time proposed to include Greek gods into Christianity. I doubt it, though, it has certainly been done with other aspects of previous religions that Christianity has replaced. Santa Claus and the Christmas Tree are both remnants of paganism along with the yule log and mistletoe. It's best way to get people to join the fold, include parts of the old religion and rename it. Then you just say, "look we believe the same thing you do". |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 15:52:57 GMT -5
Excellent post. We almost sound like clones, except I believe in God and you don't. I agree with you on most all your other opinions. By "population control" I assume you mean abortion as a means of birth control, something I disagree with. I think population control should be by pro-active birth control means. I think abortion should be legal under specific circumstances, but not as a reactive birth control method. I see a double standard here.... It's not murder, because it's not been born yet. Yet... If I hit a pregnant woman with my car and kill her and her unborn child I would face two charges of vehicular homicide. Come on, is it a life, or not? Like you said, I might be wrong, but I think you and I are a lot alike. If... People incorrectly take offense to you for supporting the idea that there is no god and that you shouldn't have to be governed those who believe in one. and... Me supporting the idea that God is and that I shouldn't have to be governed those who don't believe in God. What is the solution to such an issue that will not violate your rights nor mine? We agree on many things it seems. I too, believe that abortion should used only under certain circumstances. By population control, I mean pregnancy prevention. The answer is that we should each endeavor to not infringe upon each others rights. Government of a people so diverse as the people of the United States of America has to be done in such a way as to protect the rights of all without excluding any. It does not have to include the ideas of each group therein. That's part of the reason why I believe in a small central government. Legislators in Vermont are not necessarily in touch with South Georgia citizens and vice versa. So what is the solution to such an issue? I shouldn't and don't hammer my beliefs to those that don't want to hear them. would the flip side of the coin be.... Atheists shouldn't hammer their non-beliefs to those that don't want to hear them? If someone asks me I will gladly sit down and discuss my beliefs. However, I will not force my beliefs or opinions on anyone. |
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 18, 2010 16:36:44 GMT -5
So what is the solution to such an issue? I shouldn't and don't hammer my beliefs to those that don't want to hear them. would the flip side of the coin be.... Atheists shouldn't hammer their non-beliefs to those that don't want to hear them? If someone asks me I will gladly sit down and discuss my beliefs. However, I will not force my beliefs or opinions on anyone. Pretty much. But that just isn't happening. Many people feel the need to express their religious beliefs politically. That's when atheists start making noise against it. Laws, rules, or public action based on religious convictions are not allowed. |
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Post by Administrator on Nov 19, 2010 4:35:22 GMT -5
Since Sweeper is running for President in 2012 (as a write-in) he should tap Moderate as his VP running mate.
Fair and Balanced leadership!
;D
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 19, 2010 8:26:08 GMT -5
Since Sweeper is running for President in 2012 (as a write-in) he should tap Moderate as his VP running mate. Fair and Balanced leadership! ;D That would certainly be one all encompassing ticket. It would never make it, though. No matter how popular the Presidential candidate, he or she would get nowhere in a race with an atheist as a running mate. |
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Nov 21, 2010 1:46:11 GMT -5
Moderate,
I find you & your remarks extremely suspicious.
As I've asked you before, what is your REAL agenda in posting here?
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