Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 21:39:39 GMT -5
I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution. Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire Book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game. But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue. Yes, and this is the United States of America and Canada, countries founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect - - somebody chanting Hare Krishna? If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer. If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer. If I went to a ping-pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha. And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome ..... But what about the atheists? Is another argument. What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer! Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations. Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying. God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well, just sue me. The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we tell that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority doesn't care what they want. It is time that the majority rules! It's time we tell them, "You don't have to pray; you don't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right; but by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away. We are fighting back, and we WILL WIN!" God bless us one and all...Especially those who denounce Him, God bless America and Canada, despite all our faults, We are still the greatest nations of all. God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God. and.... If this post offends you. Sue me!  |
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joyce
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Post by joyce on Oct 13, 2010 5:04:41 GMT -5
Good post. Christians have always been perscuted and always will be. It's especially worse these days which tells me we are living in the last days.
I don't shove my religion down anybodys throat but at the same time I am never ashamed to proclaim the loving goodness of my Saviour Jesus Christ.
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ratman
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Post by ratman on Oct 16, 2010 9:49:44 GMT -5
The biggest problem is tolerance. People today will not tolerate others religious views and beliefs unless they mirror their own.
I believe in the Bible, but I don't believe in "organized" religion ( personal reasons ).
I can tell you one of the reasons. My mother has a neighbor named Dave. Dave is a gentle guy and would give you the shirt off of his back if you needed it ( if he had one to spare ).
He has a very deep belief in God, reads his Bible daily, and says prayers at least three times a day.
Dave has attended every church in this county, trying to find one that would accept him. I have taken him to a few that he didn't know where it was located. Each time, he was asked to leave after a short time in the church.
Why?
Because Dave is so poor that he can't afford a suit. He dresses in his best shirt, pants and a tie that he has,is clean and clean-shaved, but it wasn't good enough for any of the congregations.
In each church he attended, appearance was their main focal point it seems. Not the messages that was being sermoned, but what each person looked like.
Dave will not accept charity because of his pride, because he believes in working for it himself.
He tries to not let it bother him the way he was treated, but it was apparent in his face that he was hurt deeply each time he was asked to leave the church. He hasn't lost his faith in God, but has in his fellow man.
Dave rarely leaves his apartment anymore. Mom and several other people check on him daily to make sure he is eating and taking care of himself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2010 0:15:53 GMT -5
Good post. Christians have always been perscuted and always will be. It's especially worse these days which tells me we are living in the last days. I don't shove my religion down anybodys throat but at the same time I am never ashamed to proclaim the loving goodness of my Saviour Jesus Christ. Joyce, I got that outta my email. But I agree with it 100% |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2010 0:26:44 GMT -5
I can relate rat.
While some ministries are true...
many are nothing but businesses, and some are simply scams.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
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Post by sandraj on Oct 28, 2010 8:24:20 GMT -5
When I hear someone talk about how much the Christians in America are suffering persecution, I can't help but think of the Christian martyrs around the world who know what real suffering is. If we consider what we are going through as suffering, we'd better start polishing and refitting our armor. This is nothing like it's going to be, and in my opinion, we as Christians in this country need to wake up and realize the battle has just begun.
Ratman, that is EXTREMELY hard for me to believe your friend could not find a church who would accept his attire these days. While I don't mind people dressing down for church, I do expect them not to look like they just rolled out of bed. And that is exactly what some of the kids whose parents can afford the best look like. I think many parents are so glad their kid is even willing to go to church, they don't care what they look like. Gone is the belief we should give God our best. And if our best is a clean, worn out shirt and pants like your friend, then I believe God honors that far more than a Laurent polo that's crumpled and dirty w/stains.
But don't let what has happened to your friend deter you from attending a fellowship of some sort. It's Scriptural that we should come together and worship in spirit and truth. ~Just a thought.
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Post by mksred on Oct 28, 2010 20:00:18 GMT -5
Gathering together to worship is an outward encouragement to each other, kinda like a team huddle.
We can't let those who have lost sight of how God intended for us to interact with each other, encourage and uplift each other, to discourage and deter us from gathering to fellowship.
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 4, 2010 11:24:21 GMT -5
Good post. Christians have always been perscuted and always will be. It's especially worse these days which tells me we are living in the last days. I don't shove my religion down anybodys throat but at the same time I am never ashamed to proclaim the loving goodness of my Saviour Jesus Christ. You think you have it rough, try being an Atheist. Christians that claim persecution in America are hilarious. Please tell me how the organized majority is being persecuted by unorganized unaffiliated minority groups. |
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Post by mksred on Nov 9, 2010 5:20:22 GMT -5
"Christians that claim persecution in America are hilarious. Please tell me how the organized majority is being persecuted by unorganized unaffiliated minority groups."
Moderate, I feel sympathy for you that your intolerance of Christians, or those who believe God exists, rears it's head in the form of sarcasm and intense intemperance. Most Americans are guided by our right to religious freedom, and with that right should come a tolerance, or a respect, for all religions. Even though you have a belief that denies the existence of God, that in itself is a form of religion, thus your beliefs fall under the same rights of religious freedom.
I find it hard to accept that Atheists, apparently the unorganized unaffiliated minority groups you referred to in your previous post, are so persecuted. I have a dear friend of MANY years that believes similarly to you, and is similarly as "passionate" as you in trying to convince us believers that we're wrong. She can't even converse about Christian beliefs without becoming outwardly angry. I just don't get that. I believe as strongly as she does, but my dialogue isn't angry toward her because I can't convince her that my beliefs are right.
I don't have a problem with what you choose to believe, and I don't protest your beliefs-even though I don't agree. Now I'm not a scholar of history as many on this forum are, and I may not be as eloquent with my points as most, but you must remember that America was founded on the rights of religious freedom, the right to exercise without fear of persecution, the right to worship God in whatever belief system you chose. Since that time, many religions have been brought into America, because of that freedom to co-exist. Due to this country's foundation, you are in a country full of people who believe in the existence of God-in one form or another. I must ask then, why you seem so insulted or angry about the fact that "God believing" people are the majority, and that somehow we should conform to your thinking or at the very least squelch the expression of our beliefs so that you don't have to hear about it or see it?
Isn't that like being in a nudist colony, and then getting offended because there are naked people all around you?
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Post by sandraj on Nov 9, 2010 9:31:26 GMT -5
You think you have it rough, try being an Atheist. Christians that claim persecution in America are hilarious. Please tell me how the organized majority is being persecuted by unorganized unaffiliated minority groups.
Having said that, I do believe Christianity in itself is being persecuted around the world. Many of God's people are being martyred. Just not in America. And for that protection He's blessed us with, I thank you, Lord. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 14:15:44 GMT -5
They and other supporters of the New Atheism movement are hard-line critics of religion. They state that atheism, backed by recent scientific advancement, has reached the point where it is time to take a far less accommodating attitude toward religion, (AKA show no tolerance) superstition, and religion-based fanaticism than had been extended by moderate atheists, secularists, and some secular scientists. According to CNN, "What the New Atheists share is a belief that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises." Sounds organized to me. Sounds quite intolerant as well, but yet atheists cry "FOUL" when people of faith show intolerance towards them. I see the same intolerance from both believers and non-believers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism |
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Post by moderateamerican on Nov 11, 2010 18:59:39 GMT -5
They and other supporters of the New Atheism movement are hard-line critics of religion. They state that atheism, backed by recent scientific advancement, has reached the point where it is time to take a far less accommodating attitude toward religion, (AKA show no tolerance) superstition, and religion-based fanaticism than had been extended by moderate atheists, secularists, and some secular scientists. According to CNN, "What the New Atheists share is a belief that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises." Sounds organized to me. Sounds quite intolerant as well, but yet atheists cry "FOUL" when people of faith show intolerance towards them. I see the same intolerance from both believers and non-believers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_AtheismI don't seek to force anyone to do anything. I believe that if one truly looks at the facts, they will have some serious questions regarding religion. After that, they will make up their own mind. Hehe, from a post further up the page, and others everywhere atheists post, it has been expressed that we're angry or hateful. Quite the contrary, I'm frustrated. Trying to discuss atheism with religious believers is like trying to show something to someone while they stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes, and hum. I was raised in a christian family that went to church every Sunday. However, even as a very young boy, I remember thinking about what the preacher said in complete dis-belief. I no longer go to church, although I did for a very long time after I had decided that it all just didn't add up. It was tough walking away from the fellowship and community it provided. |
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Post by Cyberman on Nov 11, 2010 20:41:30 GMT -5
They and other supporters of the New Atheism movement are hard-line critics of religion. They state that atheism, backed by recent scientific advancement, has reached the point where it is time to take a far less accommodating attitude toward religion, (AKA show no tolerance) superstition, and religion-based fanaticism than had been extended by moderate atheists, secularists, and some secular scientists. According to CNN, "What the New Atheists share is a belief that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises." Sounds organized to me. Sounds quite intolerant as well, but yet atheists cry "FOUL" when people of faith show intolerance towards them. I see the same intolerance from both believers and non-believers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_AtheismI don't seek to force anyone to do anything. I believe that if one truly looks at the facts, they will have some serious questions regarding religion. After that, they will make up their own mind. Hehe, from a post further up the page, and others everywhere atheists post, it has been expressed that we're angry or hateful. Quite the contrary, I'm frustrated. Trying to discuss atheism with religious believers is like trying to show something to someone while they stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes, and hum. I was raised in a christian family that went to church every Sunday. However, even as a very young boy, I remember thinking about what the preacher said in complete dis-belief. I no longer go to church, although I did for a very long time after I had decided that it all just didn't add up. It was tough walking away from the fellowship and community it provided. Moderate? Believers who have questions about spiritual matters should pray for understanding and search out the Word for their answer. Humans making up their own mind about spiritual matters could account for all the many "man-made denominations" in the world today, which also account for the majority of the wars fought on this planet. Trying to understand the spiritual realm with our physical thought processes is difficult to say the least. There is a difference between discussing religion and attacking religion. Just like their is a difference between discussing non-belief and attacking atheism. People of faith probably have little interest in discussing non-belief. Why? Because they believe, and the members here on ASO are very experienced when it comes to detecting IDs that are simply wanting to stir up a stink by pressing buttons and pulling chains. So if you seek more conversation on ASO than with just me, try to be a little less insulting, and I'm sure others will engage you as well. I've never understood why people that claim no-belief in a non-existent god would even want to waste their time talking about something that they admit they don't believe in. People of faith are not perfect. No one is. You stated in an earlier post that science has proven that gravity exist. That is true. My point is this....gravity existed LONG before scientist proved it and our feable, physical minds could comprehend the law of gravity. I've heard many claims from non-believers that they saw something that they didn't understand or agree with, or the church is full of hypocrites, the pastor is a liar, etc....(myself in the past being one of those people with doubts) I discovered I had been keeping my eyes on my fellow believers INSTEAD of keeping my eyes on my Savior. I had to refocus, pray and try to learn all I can. This is still on-going. Am I perfect? Not just no, but hell no. People that truly want to learn what is in the Bible, instead of simply reading the different books of the Bible with the sole intent of finding errors and/or contradictions should start with learning about the geography, politics, etc...of that time in history. Remember some books are books of history, poetry, and a few other types of literature. I'd be glad to discuss my opinions about religion with believers or non-believers. However, I'm not here to insult or degrade you, I would appreciate the same in return. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2010 2:53:58 GMT -5
So what happened?
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Post by mksred on Nov 13, 2010 4:51:33 GMT -5
Moderate, is it that your frustration stems from not being able to convince others to give up believing in something that offers them hope, as perhaps it seems you have?
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