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Post by sandraj on Dec 6, 2010 12:30:01 GMT -5
With that, I'll agree. Simply because there is nothing in my post to imply one shouldn't "read" about any other religion. I did, however say, " I don't believe studying the koran is the thing to do. Granted, one needs to know the 'high points' just as in any cult, in order to witness to those who deny the deity of Christ, but going beyond that point is nothing more than the desire to gain 'head knowledge'."
Now if you prefer to go beyond the point of reading, then obviously, you are studying it. I don't have the desire to do so, nor do I think it's necessary to read for mere curiosity simply to call it "knowledge". But I wouldn't be so insulting as to call someone "ignorant" or "weak" who chooses to do so.
And in regard to "knowledge is power", I agree. That is to say, only when that knowledge is used to gain power. What power is gained in reading the koran? The extremist hate all Americans and think of us as infidels. I really don't think a little knowledge about the koran is going to lessen the swiftness of their sword. We're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.
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Post by Cyberman on Dec 6, 2010 14:50:15 GMT -5
Know your enemy. Muslims say that Islam is a religion of peace. The Koran doesn't sound too peaceful. Christianity teaches us to love our neighbor. For the greatest of these is love. I Corinthians chapter 13 describes what true Christianity and what true Christians should be. I Corinthians 13:4-7 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. A true Christian should be able to substitute their own name in place of the word "love" in the above scriptures. Sadly many cannot. IE: John Doe is patient. John Doe is kind. John Doe does not envy. John Doe does not boast. John Doe is not proud. John Doe does not dishonor others. John Doe is not self-seeking. John Doe is not easily angered. John Doe keeps no records of wrongs. John Doe does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth. John Doe always protects, always trusts, always hopes, and always preservers. Luckily Jesus can... Jesus is patient. Jesus is kind. Jesus does not envy. Jesus does not boast. Jesus is not proud. Jesus does not dishonor others. Jesus is not self-seeking. Jesus is not easily angered. Jesus keeps no records of wrongs. Jesus does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth. Jesus always protects, always trusts, always hopes, and always preservers. I still dont know much about Islam, don't really care to learn much more. Why? For by their fruits ye shall know them. Jesus also predicted the current dilemma of Muslim intolerance and fanaticism. He warned that the day was likewise coming when religious zealots will kill Christians and think they are offering a service to God (John 16:2-4). One thing that separates Christians from Muslims. Christians will die for their beliefs and pray for the unbelievers... or they should. However..... Muslims will kill for their beliefs and kill the unbelievers. www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htmIslam and Christianity are forever diametrically opposed: A tenet of Islam is that both Mohammed and Jesus of Nazareth were both Muslims. Islam says both were prophets sent by Allah. If this were true, then it is mandatory that these two great prophets must coincide exactly in all points and never contradict each other. Did not the same Allah send both of them? Then, aren't even the smallest of contradictions between the two, very big red flags? And there are a great many, which you will see below. Christianity and Islam are necessarily forever diametrically opposed to one another, just as evil and good are. Oral confession of the deity of Jesus Christ is prerequisite to becoming a Christian (Romans 10:9-10). To a Muslim, this is blasphemy. To a Christian it is blasphemy to not attribute divinity to Jesus the Christ. The New Testament could not be clearer on this subject. The heart, core and soul of Christianity is allegiance to Jesus Christ as God, Lord, and Savior! Were Jesus Christ who the Muslim Qur'an who it makes him out to be, then Christianity would be blasphemous and baseless. |
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Post by Cyberman on Dec 6, 2010 15:19:27 GMT -5
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blade
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by blade on Dec 7, 2010 14:25:46 GMT -5
well said cyber
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Mike
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by Mike on Dec 9, 2010 12:42:34 GMT -5
Cyberman,
That was an awesome post.
Thanks,
Mike
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Post by moderateamerican on Dec 9, 2010 13:18:25 GMT -5
I'm with Mike on this one.
Knowledge is the answer, not ignorance.
SandraJ said, "Why study a lie?". LOL
Well, I'm going to skip the argument and not even get started on that statement. I'm sure everyone knows my stance on that by now.
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Post by moderateamerican on Dec 9, 2010 16:00:35 GMT -5
Cyberman there are also many contradictions in the Bible, including the two seperate accounts of creation in Gensis.
But along the lines of Jesus teaching only love there is one very curious statement attributed to Jesus Christ is found in Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple."
Some more examples of evil in the Bible are:
Matt.5.43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Ephesians 6:5 "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ"
There are evil parts of the Bible as well. The Old Testament is full of evil deeds done in the sevice of god.
I really need to get more familiar with the Koran so that I can be a little more well rounded in this issue. I have very little knowledge of what it actually says. Most of what I think I know comes from things I've heard about it.
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Post by Cyberman on Dec 10, 2010 13:41:11 GMT -5
Moderate,
To clarify Matt. 5:43
This is one verse from the Sermon on the Mount.
In other words it's just one statement from Jesus while delivering a sermon of many statements.
In verse 43 Jesus said, "You have heard to love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
To fully understand it you should also read verse 44 where Jesus said..."But I say unto you love your enemies..."
Jesus didn't tell the people to love their neighbors and hate their enemies.
He said "You have heard or been taught to love your neighbors and hate your enemies." He was teaching love.
As far as the "slave" reference.
Often times in the ancient days people were often called slaves (today we call them employees), and some people were called masters (today we would call those people supervisors or managers.)
It's difficult to understand the (FULL) meaning of scripture when people only dissect one verse out of thousands of verses. Like I've said in the past, to better understand the Bible or any ancient text of the past it is quite helpful to also have a basic understanding of the region, people, politics, geography, etc...of that time in history to have a better understanding of the Bible.
People have asked me in the past, "How did Moses have such detailed accounts of the beginning if writing hadn't been invented yet?"
It's possible that Enoch began work on the first forms of written communication. However considering that Moses and Adam were both alive at the same time it is also possible that Adam told the story of the Beginning to Moses who then penned it.
If you have other scriptures that you would like my interpretation on just post them in a new thread.
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Post by moderateamerican on Dec 10, 2010 15:07:24 GMT -5
Yes but wasn't he refering to what the people had been told "by god" in the Old Testament? Was god wrong to instruct his people to kill inocent women and children? Can god be wrong?
About creation, The problem is that the written word had been around way before the biblical account of creation even started. It seems to me that the simplest answer is that the human writers got the timeline wrong due to their ignorance of the true age of the world.
In order to show the truly barbarous and immoral acts done under "order of god", I would have to list Old Testament "events". I understand that many Christians believe that those events don't matter because of the New Testament. I disagree. If the Bible is sacred, one should not cherry pick it for shinny, happy messages. If the Old Testament is void, why not just forget the whole thing?
In any event, the Bible is just as brutal as the Koran in certain parts. Either book is unsuitable to be used as a guide for moral judgement.
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Post by Cyberman on Dec 10, 2010 17:20:13 GMT -5
Yes but wasn't he refering to what the people had been told "by god" in the Old Testament? Was god wrong to instruct his people to kill inocent women and children? Can god be wrong? About creation, The problem is that the written word had been around way before the biblical account of creation even started. It seems to me that the simplest answer is that the human writers got the timeline wrong due to their ignorance of the true age of the world. In order to show the truly barbarous and immoral acts done under "order of god", I would have to list Old Testament "events". I understand that many Christians believe that those events don't matter because of the New Testament. I disagree. If the Bible is sacred, one should not cherry pick it for shinny, happy messages. If the Old Testament is void, why not just forget the whole thing? In any event, the Bible is just as brutal as the Koran in certain parts. Either book is unsuitable to be used as a guide for moral judgement. IMHO The people had been taught to hate their enemies. By God? Probably not, in my opinion he was referring to what secular scholars of the time were teaching. The same scholars that demanded the death of Jesus because what Jesus was teaching was in fact cutting in on their authority of the common people of that day. If God said to kill the wicked He probably had good reason. I don't think God views "death" like we mortals do. He is the giver of life, mankinds' decision to do things his own way (rebellion against God) resulted in our mortality. I've never read where God demanded the death of the innocent. I guess the definition of innocent depends on with whom you are discussing innocence with. The wicked usually see themselves as innocent. For example, most all of the prison population are unjustly imprisoned, if you believe what a convicted felon says about their personal situation of imprisonment. Funny thing how the creation attempts to judge the creator. Even funnier is how somone who doesn't believe in God seems to enjoy the discussion of what they claim is bullshit. Moderate, I will say this about atheist. They solidify my belief in God. Just the opposite of their usual intention. For that, I say thank you. |
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Post by sandraj on Dec 11, 2010 9:50:15 GMT -5
SandraJ said, "Why study a lie?". LOL Well, I'm going to skip the argument and not even get started on that statement. I'm sure everyone knows my stance on that by now.  
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Post by sandraj on Dec 11, 2010 9:53:02 GMT -5
Reading this thread further brings something to mind that has always amused me. The very ones who believe the Bible the least are the very ones who claim to have the most knowledge about it. ;D
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Post by moderateamerican on Jan 12, 2011 9:27:06 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I took a bit of time off, but I'm back. IMHO The people had been taught to hate their enemies. By God? Probably not, in my opinion he was referring to what secular scholars of the time were teaching. The same scholars that demanded the death of Jesus because what Jesus was teaching was in fact cutting in on their authority of the common people of that day. If God said to kill the wicked He probably had good reason. I don't think God views "death" like we mortals do. He is the giver of life, mankinds' decision to do things his own way (rebellion against God) resulted in our mortality. I've never read where God demanded the death of the innocent. I guess the definition of innocent depends on with whom you are discussing innocence with. The wicked usually see themselves as innocent. For example, most all of the prison population are unjustly imprisoned, if you believe what a convicted felon says about their personal situation of imprisonment. Funny thing how the creation attempts to judge the creator. Even funnier is how somone who doesn't believe in God seems to enjoy the discussion of what they claim is bullshit. Moderate, I will say this about atheist. They solidify my belief in God. Just the opposite of their usual intention. For that, I say thank you. In the old testament, at Jericho "God" comands the destruction of every living thing. Men women, children, livestock, EVERYTHING. What sin had the children committed? The livestock? It's all just ridiculous nonsense concieved by barbarous people from antiquity who were interested in placing their people on a pedestal by promoting them to "God's chosen people" status, and then using it as an excuse to steal from their neighbors, murder their enemies, and take their virgin daughters as sex slaves. The bible is filled with this kind of immorality. It's disgusting! Also, I discuss this nonsense in order to shed a light into the darkness. I have optimism that logic and reason will one day serve as a guiding light to those in need of answers instead of superstition. |
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Post by moderateamerican on Jan 12, 2011 9:28:30 GMT -5
SandraJ said, "Why study a lie?". LOL Well, I'm going to skip the argument and not even get started on that statement. I'm sure everyone knows my stance on that by now.
Because your holy book is just as false as the Koran. You said it best. Why study a lie? |
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Post by Hoosier Hillbilly on Jan 12, 2011 11:04:56 GMT -5
Cyberman said; "Moderate, I will say this about atheist."
'i' say many people might live that way, but how many of them die the same?
God put many temptations on this earth, ( sometimes 'i' wish He hadn't put so many), but as Christians... :NO! People believing Christ died for our sins and He's our saviour! YES!: we can follow in His teachings and be assured of a Heavenly home.
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