Let's learn about Islam and Muslim extremists

[Deleted]

Muslims trace their heritage to the Hebrew people and prophets. The term "Semite" derives from Shem, the son of Noah, and both Jews and Arabs consider themselves Semitic people. In particular, they trace their ancestry to Ishmael, the firstborn son of Abraham.

In the Hebrew Scriptures, Abraham and Sarah, approaching old age, had difficulty bearing a child. This problem was made even more serious by the fact that God had promised Abraham that he would become the father of many nations. So, with Sarah seemingly barren, Abraham took Hagar as a second wife. Hagar bore Abraham a son, named Ishmael. Shortly thereafter, however, Sarah also bore Abraham a son, named Isaac. Having fulfilled her marital duty and God's promise, Sarah demanded that Abraham reject Hagar and Ishmael.

Abraham did so, and from this point, the Qur'an departs from the biblical story to follow the story of Ishmael. According to the Qur'an, Ishmael went to the place that would later be known as Mecca. His descendents would be the Muslims, while Isaac's descendents became the Jews.
www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/prophets.htm

Well that explains some of the friction between the Jews and Muslims.

God had promised Abraham and Sarah, but they got impatient and decided to take matters into their own hands.

[Deleted]

I can think of only one other group of people that despise the Jewish nation with the same passion that Muslim extremists do.

Would someone check on the connection between the NAZIs and the Muslim extremists?

[sandraj]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend...Old Arab Proverb

www.shoaheducation.com/muslimnazi.html

[Mike]

People need to read the Koran.

1. All infidels MUST be destroyed.

2. An infidel is a non-believer of Islam.

Basically Muslims are commanded by the Koran to KILL all non-Muslims.

I still have not seen any head of state of a Muslim country denounce a terrorist act or group that is radical Muslim.

[sandraj]

Nor I. And I don't think we realize how many muslims live in our communities. How many we communicate w/on a daily basis. They come in all colors, shapes, and sizes, and are thoroughly convinced of their belief. Americans are extremely naive in this manner. However, I do not think we all need to sit down and ingest page after page of the Koran.

[mksred]

I don't think it would be spiritually healthy for a Christian to read through the Koran. I don't understand how natural born Americans can be sucked into the beliefs taught by the Koran, as it conflicts with some of the very rights we treasure as Americans.

Then for those who are former "Christians" that convert-I am completely void of understanding as to how that can happen. The Koran teaches hatred, intolerance, and inequality for women...the Bible teaches intolerance to sin, however it focuses on love and forgiveness.

[Mike]

mksred,

I have to disagree with your first sentence.

We all need to read about other religions & ways of life in order to grow.

We don't have to adopt their practices.

I am Catholic but grew up in a predominately Orthodox Jewish community.

I know more about the kosher laws than most Jews, but don't practice it and I remain Catholic.

And I am not defending the Koran, but if you did not read it, how can you tell us what it teaches?

And there is an old saying: "know your enemy".

[moderateamerican]

I agree with Mike on this one.

In order to pass judgment on something, you need to know it completely. And of course that doesn't mean you will convert. You will just have knowledge of the thing.

I have a friend that told me about a survey done some time ago that measured the religious knowledge of Americans. I admit, I still haven't gone and looked it up, but apparently the two groups of Americans that showed the highest overall knowledge of the Bible, were Atheists and Agnostics. I believe he said Mormons ranked pretty high up there with one other denomination which I can't remember.

But my point is, whether we are religious or not, Christian or Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu, it's never a bad idea to get to know, better, the people we will inevitably be interacting with.

[mksred]

I see your points gentlemen, knowledge leads to tolerance or accepting others differences while not necessarily agreeing. However, don't jump to conclusions regarding my post so quickly. I have read the Koran, admittedly not in its entirety or "straight-thru", but large portions of it during 2 World Religions college courses and a 4 month study of the Muslim religion thru my church-enough to have gained a clear understanding of what it teaches in order to pass judgment or, at the least, tender my opinion. Perhaps I should have stated that I don't feel it would be a good read for someone who is not firm in their foundational beliefs but yet committed to a particular religion.

I don't necessarily agree with your statement, moderate, that one must know it "completely" to pass judgment. I don't know the Satanic Bible or religion deeply, but I know enough to understand that it is not spiritually healthy for Christians to read it without daily prayer along with counter-reading of the Holy Bible. Now of course moderate, this would only apply if one believes in God and the universal "good vs evil" theory. :-)

And Mike, you are correct in stating that we don't have to adopt their practices, however, sometimes in our quest for knowledge, we can end up opening ourselves up to unhealthy influences - unhealthy in the sense of confusion or dysphoria.

Moderate, I'm curious about that survey..do you think it shows that people who use the Bible as their primary source of religious teachings don't pay attention to what they read? I think it might be that maybe some of the details fall by the wayside because they are more interested in trying to apply "the moral of the story" or the general idea to their lives.

Conversely, I would think that Atheists, Agnostics, Mormons, and others would naturally be the highest ranking in knowledge when it comes to the Bible, because they study it not to glean understanding for life applications from it, but rather to pick it apart. My momma said that it's always easier to point out the negative than it find the positive.

I also think that one would have to see what knowledge of the Bible was tested in the survey to accurately assess the results in order to draw specific conclusions to support or not support the findings.

[moderateamerican]

Nov 30, 2010 5:12:39 GMT -5 mksred said:

I don't necessarily agree with your statement, moderate, that one must know it "completely" to pass judgment.

Yeah, I think I used a poor choice of words right there. However, it seems you may have a clearer understanding of the Koran than most, if indeed your studies into it are as you stated.

Nov 30, 2010 5:12:39 GMT -5 mksred said:

Moderate, I'm curious about that survey..do you think it shows that people who use the Bible as their primary source of religious teachings don't pay attention to what they read? I think it might be that maybe some of the details fall by the wayside because they are more interested in trying to apply "the moral of the story" or the general idea to their lives.

Conversely, I would think that Atheists, Agnostics, Mormons, and others would naturally be the highest ranking in knowledge when it comes to the Bible, because they study it not to glean understanding for life applications from it, but rather to pick it apart. My momma said that it's always easier to point out the negative than it find the positive.

I also think that one would have to see what knowledge of the Bible was tested in the survey to accurately assess the results in order to draw specific conclusions to support or not support the findings.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a large number of people who insist on viewing all parts of the Bible or any other religious text as literal truth. That is why non-Christians and such would focus on attempting to understand the details therein.

I believe the survey focused on pure facts, as any other aspects such as meaning would be purely subjective to the individual.

I have found the survey in question and will post a link in a new thread to keep this one from getting off track.

One small thing, though. You stated that those looking to discredit the Bible might "study it not to glean understanding for life applications from it, but rather to pick it apart" and that "it's always easier to point out the negative than it find the positive".
Could it be that you missed some redeeming portions of the Koran because you were focused on the horrendous parts?
Just a thought. I personally don't support the use of the Koran as a guide to living a good life. Neither do I support any other religious text.

[mksred]

Point taken about my focus when viewing the Koran, but I was not on a fault finding mission - I truly wanted to see what message it contained that could be so compelling as to convince someone to convert. I was, however, astounded and shocked at the intense loyalty, and acts to prove the such, required in its teachings. My religion doesn't encourage "defeating the opposition" thru death, instead it encourages conversion thru love, forgiveness, and understanding.

So, considering that my spiritual beliefs and foundations are rooted in more positive attributes of the spiritual realm, the intensity shown in the teachings of the Koran toward those who did not convert or believe was hard to see/accept in an unbiased way. I realize that in any belief system, one chooses to believe the tenents of that particular religion, and then try to apply them in a meaningful way to their own lives, with most probably desiring to "spread the gospel" in order to convert others and proliferate their cause.

I do draw the line in tolerance when it comes to killing innocents in the name of religion. And yes, history shows record of holy war after holy war - it's history, but i don't like it or agree with it. God gave man free will to choose, right or wrong, how to live their lives with certain guidelines or rules. Christianity offers choices with rewards and consequences, but as a general rule it operates in the spirit of love, forgiveness, and accountability - not solely, I acquiesce, as I am aware that there are negative consequences associated with non-belief or non-acceptance of the teachings that one must accept that Christ was real, that He came to earth and died for my transgressions and was the supreme sacrifice so that I would have the choice to accept his sacrifice-in-my-stead and receive his free gift of eternal life in heaven.

My God doesn't require or request of me to silence or kill those who don't convert to my beliefs, He commands me to love. That, my friend, is awesome...propagating an "all must believe or be killed" mentality is not awesome, it is EXTREMELY wrong.

[Deleted]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cCspBW8O8c&feature=related

Walter's take on terrorism and terrorists.

[moderateamerican]

Haha. . . Loved it!


"why not 72 slutty broads who know what the hell they're doing?"

Walter is a genious!!!

[sandraj]

I've read all the "points" to consider on getting to know the enemy here on this thread, but I still have to say, I don't believe studying the koran is the thing to do. Granted, one needs to know the 'high points' just as in any cult, in order to witness to those who deny the deity of Christ, but going beyond that point is nothing more than the desire to gain 'head knowledge'. I suppose that's the difference. Christ allows us to have heart knowledge of His word. Is there any other "religion" which can claim that, or even a personal relationship w/it's creator? To 'flirt' w/another belief in order to know it to the fullest is a dangerous thing. If one is truly interested in convincing someone of the Truth, wouldn't it be better to have a full knowledge of that? Why study a lie?

"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord".~Joshua 24:15

[Mike]

I've read the comments here & I'm afraid that I may step on some toes.

And so I'm apologizing in advance.

"Ignorance is Bliss".

"Knowledge is power".

The arguments posted here about not reading about another religion can also be used for not watching TV, reading any kind of book, or listening to music.

It's frightening if someone's character is so weak that the simple act of reading a book will fundamentally change their outlook on life.

JMHO,
Mike